This may be very boring indeed but for me has been most fascinating - reading psychological research papers and articles about BDSM SMers and M/s. I started writing to my friend about it having gently disclosed my recent exploration. But I think as it has been a therapeutic exercise thus far, I will not send it and instead leave it here, safe (ish).
This started as a result of reading an article about BDSM SMer M/s and therapy. A very interesting article about prejudices and misunderstandings amongst many counsellors and indeed the DSM IV categorises sexual deviance's as pathological. There have been cases taken to court as well. These sexual activities in my view a very misunderstood. So I thought I would research further and here are some of my thoughts as I have been reading and reading.
Dear Friend (M) I just wanted to say thank you for allowing me to just start tentatively to be honest about my thoughts on Dominant and submissive interests.
I have felt ashamed of this for my lifetime about a tendency which I know was there from a young age. I have felt that I was dirty and vile. I was told off at school with another girl (aged 7 yrs) for a game we were playing in the playground in which she and I were captured and tortured by these two boys and some other girls. I have often associated this with
the very difficult times I was going through in my home life. A lot I cannot remember but have a feeling of terror and shadowy memories.
But as I am reading more and more there is a dubious correlation between submissive orientation and sexual abuse - well so far in my research. As always there are a large number of people who have been abused sexually physically mentally emotionally a spiritually. A lot of people don't even realise this is what has happened to them and carry on the legacy with their own children. More and more I come to some belief that our society is full of unhealthy behaviours and attitudes but there is little awareness. Centuries of getting to this point in my lowly opinion. So it doesn't matter within which community mega or macro, there will be evidence of abuse depending on mind-sets.
Having said all of this I am fascinated by people - everything - interactions - verbal, written, visuals, etc.etc. I have found the social constuctionism theories very compelling and heard last night this is an area you are currently studying. Perhaps we can have more time to talk about this - we talk about the daily life things but rarely get stuck into a debate. I have a hunger for knowledge so would learn a lot from you I know. And i am sure we have ideas to churn and expand on - what do you think?
Reading the article in Therapy Today has really interested me on a more intellectual level which of course helps take me away from my own feelings.
I have been doing some research this morning and wondered if you wanted snippets of info as I go along that seem interesting suggestions - the research are formal scientific and psychological research papers around the world and not general hearsay. But of course as I have learnt through my studies so far no research provides a finite answer (even when they seem to claim that).
Also bear in mind that some of the snippets I might send are a small finding within a greater study and not necessarily the purpose of the study.
My scan of the document I read is not clear so will try again as I think you might find it interesting.
One thing that was a very interesting comment -
"Sexual sadism appears more frequently in forensic contexts in combination with sadistic, antisocial and borderline personality disorders but rarely with masochism.
Masochism is otherwise reported to be more prevalent in patients of general psychiatry, however, combined with depression or dependent personality traits rather than with sadism."
Wolfgang Berner · Peer Briken, Sexueller Sadismus und Sexualkriminalität, Forens Psychiatr Psychol Kriminol (2010) 4:90–97
I found this very interesting. As I had been diagnosed with Borderline and also Personality Disorder as well as an addictive personality of course. (Amongst many others ahahahahaha). There are times when I feel almost entirely non-sexual and at these times do not want to engage with anything remotely sexual. So i thought I would try and note my mood levels and see if there is any correlation. I am unclear on the term general psychiatry and will see if one of the consultants could clarify their interpretation of this. Currently I believe this to mean falling between the lines of the norms. Back to the diagnostic labels have been given - well I read the criteria and to be honest could fit into any at some time. I am reading about Aspergers at the moment and think "ooo I do that, and that!". But there are some people who fit entirely inot the criteria and don't have anything else as well. Probably like the chronic alcoholics mentioned in the AA Big Book.
The above research paper was primarily investigating sadism but of course it doesn't exist without the masochistic element, someone or something has to be on the receiving end. And of course the findings are suggest there is a high level of sadism within forensic cases not meaning that all sadistically orientated people are murderers at the high end or criminally aggressive.
Do you know of much literature on the subject? Does it appear through the ages specifically? I know of but not in detail the Story of Anne Desclos and Gorean books by John Norman. I was just interested how this very underground sexuality features. And is there a link too with Goth Vampires etc?
Funny thing is, sidelining slightly, I am so controlling and the submission is about handing over control entirely. I think some of the relief of submission is being able to not be in control of my destiny. Within that there is a sense of freedom finally for me. Expression and exploration are more accessible.
Will add more thoughts and findings (just delete the whole thing if its too boring or too distracting or just something you are just abhorred by)
Ha ha - have even written off to a couple of the Profs. I am insane
I found this conclusion from a research quite reassuring actually. Having been recently actively speaking with people to learn about Dominant/submissive relationships, I thought how much more at ease some of these people seemed. Open. Some were judgemental bout vanilla relationships but less judgemental and more saying that vanilla wasn't for them. Whereas people with supposedly more normal sexual activities do seem to make judgements against people practising sexual diversity. And as I write that it's similar in most instances of alleged normality and the judgements against anything slightly different and challenging - control through fear perhaps. Funny that the research is into the deviations from everyday when quite possibly the everyday is the more unhealthy. Just a thought.
"Our findings support the idea that BDSM is simply a sexual interest or subculture attractive to a minority, and for most participants not a pathological symptom of past abuse or difficulty with “normal” sex."
Richters J, de Visser RO, Rissel CE, Grulich AE, and Smith AMA. Demographic and psychosocial features of participants in bondage and discipline, “sadomasochism” or dominance and submission (BDSM): Data from a national survey. J Sex Med 2008;5:1660–1668.
It seems that until recent research, anyone practicing what is being named as "kinky" sexual interests are psychologically abnormal, have been involved in sexual abuse or are sexually deficient. This continues to be the diagnosis in the Medical Manuals. But there is more and more research disproving these earlier findings. I like the fact that in the research mentioned above it highlight the fact that much of the evidence supporting these earlier claims is gathered from people who have been criminally charged. I think that sheds a light on other facts.
A sexual interest or subculture attractive to the minority was the conclusion from the above mentioned research paper. And not a result of anything psychological wrong. Interesting. The study also showed a greater number of women involved in BDSM. But then all sorts of factors might have influenced the stats.
I will continue to add this as I read and discover - of course all the thoughts and opinions I write are merely that ....
It has become clear in my research of the research that BDSM SM M/s sexual activities are being found to be not a clinical issue. The reference is to subculture and alternative sexual activities. It made me smile when reading an article about how therapists need to conduct themselves, that importance was made to remaining aware not try and elimnate or cure the sexual acitivity as being pathological. It wasn't such a long time ago that homosexuality was something that had to be cured!!!
This is an interesting website - https://ncsfreedom.org/
This started as a result of reading an article about BDSM SMer M/s and therapy. A very interesting article about prejudices and misunderstandings amongst many counsellors and indeed the DSM IV categorises sexual deviance's as pathological. There have been cases taken to court as well. These sexual activities in my view a very misunderstood. So I thought I would research further and here are some of my thoughts as I have been reading and reading.
Dear Friend (M) I just wanted to say thank you for allowing me to just start tentatively to be honest about my thoughts on Dominant and submissive interests.
I have felt ashamed of this for my lifetime about a tendency which I know was there from a young age. I have felt that I was dirty and vile. I was told off at school with another girl (aged 7 yrs) for a game we were playing in the playground in which she and I were captured and tortured by these two boys and some other girls. I have often associated this with
the very difficult times I was going through in my home life. A lot I cannot remember but have a feeling of terror and shadowy memories.
But as I am reading more and more there is a dubious correlation between submissive orientation and sexual abuse - well so far in my research. As always there are a large number of people who have been abused sexually physically mentally emotionally a spiritually. A lot of people don't even realise this is what has happened to them and carry on the legacy with their own children. More and more I come to some belief that our society is full of unhealthy behaviours and attitudes but there is little awareness. Centuries of getting to this point in my lowly opinion. So it doesn't matter within which community mega or macro, there will be evidence of abuse depending on mind-sets.
Having said all of this I am fascinated by people - everything - interactions - verbal, written, visuals, etc.etc. I have found the social constuctionism theories very compelling and heard last night this is an area you are currently studying. Perhaps we can have more time to talk about this - we talk about the daily life things but rarely get stuck into a debate. I have a hunger for knowledge so would learn a lot from you I know. And i am sure we have ideas to churn and expand on - what do you think?
Reading the article in Therapy Today has really interested me on a more intellectual level which of course helps take me away from my own feelings.
I have been doing some research this morning and wondered if you wanted snippets of info as I go along that seem interesting suggestions - the research are formal scientific and psychological research papers around the world and not general hearsay. But of course as I have learnt through my studies so far no research provides a finite answer (even when they seem to claim that).
Also bear in mind that some of the snippets I might send are a small finding within a greater study and not necessarily the purpose of the study.
My scan of the document I read is not clear so will try again as I think you might find it interesting.
One thing that was a very interesting comment -
"Sexual sadism appears more frequently in forensic contexts in combination with sadistic, antisocial and borderline personality disorders but rarely with masochism.
Masochism is otherwise reported to be more prevalent in patients of general psychiatry, however, combined with depression or dependent personality traits rather than with sadism."
Wolfgang Berner · Peer Briken, Sexueller Sadismus und Sexualkriminalität, Forens Psychiatr Psychol Kriminol (2010) 4:90–97
I found this very interesting. As I had been diagnosed with Borderline and also Personality Disorder as well as an addictive personality of course. (Amongst many others ahahahahaha). There are times when I feel almost entirely non-sexual and at these times do not want to engage with anything remotely sexual. So i thought I would try and note my mood levels and see if there is any correlation. I am unclear on the term general psychiatry and will see if one of the consultants could clarify their interpretation of this. Currently I believe this to mean falling between the lines of the norms. Back to the diagnostic labels have been given - well I read the criteria and to be honest could fit into any at some time. I am reading about Aspergers at the moment and think "ooo I do that, and that!". But there are some people who fit entirely inot the criteria and don't have anything else as well. Probably like the chronic alcoholics mentioned in the AA Big Book.
The above research paper was primarily investigating sadism but of course it doesn't exist without the masochistic element, someone or something has to be on the receiving end. And of course the findings are suggest there is a high level of sadism within forensic cases not meaning that all sadistically orientated people are murderers at the high end or criminally aggressive.
Do you know of much literature on the subject? Does it appear through the ages specifically? I know of but not in detail the Story of Anne Desclos and Gorean books by John Norman. I was just interested how this very underground sexuality features. And is there a link too with Goth Vampires etc?
Funny thing is, sidelining slightly, I am so controlling and the submission is about handing over control entirely. I think some of the relief of submission is being able to not be in control of my destiny. Within that there is a sense of freedom finally for me. Expression and exploration are more accessible.
Will add more thoughts and findings (just delete the whole thing if its too boring or too distracting or just something you are just abhorred by)
Ha ha - have even written off to a couple of the Profs. I am insane
I found this conclusion from a research quite reassuring actually. Having been recently actively speaking with people to learn about Dominant/submissive relationships, I thought how much more at ease some of these people seemed. Open. Some were judgemental bout vanilla relationships but less judgemental and more saying that vanilla wasn't for them. Whereas people with supposedly more normal sexual activities do seem to make judgements against people practising sexual diversity. And as I write that it's similar in most instances of alleged normality and the judgements against anything slightly different and challenging - control through fear perhaps. Funny that the research is into the deviations from everyday when quite possibly the everyday is the more unhealthy. Just a thought.
"Our findings support the idea that BDSM is simply a sexual interest or subculture attractive to a minority, and for most participants not a pathological symptom of past abuse or difficulty with “normal” sex."
Richters J, de Visser RO, Rissel CE, Grulich AE, and Smith AMA. Demographic and psychosocial features of participants in bondage and discipline, “sadomasochism” or dominance and submission (BDSM): Data from a national survey. J Sex Med 2008;5:1660–1668.
It seems that until recent research, anyone practicing what is being named as "kinky" sexual interests are psychologically abnormal, have been involved in sexual abuse or are sexually deficient. This continues to be the diagnosis in the Medical Manuals. But there is more and more research disproving these earlier findings. I like the fact that in the research mentioned above it highlight the fact that much of the evidence supporting these earlier claims is gathered from people who have been criminally charged. I think that sheds a light on other facts.
A sexual interest or subculture attractive to the minority was the conclusion from the above mentioned research paper. And not a result of anything psychological wrong. Interesting. The study also showed a greater number of women involved in BDSM. But then all sorts of factors might have influenced the stats.
I will continue to add this as I read and discover - of course all the thoughts and opinions I write are merely that ....
It has become clear in my research of the research that BDSM SM M/s sexual activities are being found to be not a clinical issue. The reference is to subculture and alternative sexual activities. It made me smile when reading an article about how therapists need to conduct themselves, that importance was made to remaining aware not try and elimnate or cure the sexual acitivity as being pathological. It wasn't such a long time ago that homosexuality was something that had to be cured!!!
This is an interesting website - https://ncsfreedom.org/
