From Bliss to DA -DO you love each other do you think? What about being in love? This may be too personal and I am not prying. Just interested. I have felt real love for JH but on discovering dishonesty, the love has brought with it at times pain and anger. What's worse is that I kept on believing him when he said he was doing this differently etc. and each time some another lie would become apparent in some peculiar manner. It had become so so painful. The fun and easiness seemed to be getting depleted for both of us I think. But I continued to believe in the love and wanting to work through and beyond. I have become confused. I would like to be loved and to love.
I have had a series of relationships. In fact at points in the past I rarely gave myself time to get over the first before meeting the next. And to be honest DA have not always acted in ways that today I would consider decent - as I got deeper and deeper into my own chaos with addiction I crossed my principles and values which in fact compounded my self-despair and contributed to my justification to "use" more. So I have been to a very dark side of me, a side I never did like. I don't believe that one is subjected then to a lifetime of punishment when changing and being more true to myself but at times I have wondered if there is some come-uppance and I am being made to feel this pain. I really don't hold that to be true in my heart. I do not believe in a punishing Higher Power. When there is punishment involved it shrieks to me of my father and brutality.
I did actually meet and have relationships with some incredibly wonderful and decent people but don't notice at the time. And then there were others that were as low in principles and morals and attitude. I got lower and lower.
I have wondered if humans can be together for a lifetime or is this some delusional religious rule that was imposed. Mind you I was watching the BBC documentary The Human Planet and there are people there that commit to a lifetime. I also saw a sort of controlled infidelity amongst a particular community in Niger. I found it fascinating as well as being interested in the psychological views.
Maybe that's a contributing problem - as a psychologist and therapist I have a lot of theory and questioning. I don't actually believe this to be true as I know nothing. But I do find human beings so fascinating!!!
I see some couples who seem to me to be totally in love still and know each other so well but are not owning each other, simply two people together respectfully. I see others who clearly can't abide each other. I see others who sometimes it's OK but communication is not on the agenda or even togetherness. I see some who are just in a permanent state of anger. And others who find ways to make it work between them in various ways - that sounds like love to me too.
What do you think about all of this DA. Love, in love, togetherness etc. When I am an observer I do have a real interest to know what it is that's going on.
Anyway I will be patient "younger" DA. I trust that if I am to meet or have met the person who I am compatible with then it will be evident. In the meantime I am very OK with me (except too fat right now :) )I get these menopause symptoms and I have no self management with this!!!!! It is a very annoying pattern I cannot seem to break.
DA its lovely having you in my life once again. You are a lovely person - did you know that?
DA to Bliss: Thanks Bliss. I watch Human Planet too and I think that the less you have in life the more you make out of it. Some of these people live in small isolated communities that for most people would be unbearable -but these people are so happy. They live simple uncomplicated lives. They work hard and relax with family and friends at the end of the day - simple. The whole community comes together very week to enjoy themselves in the social club. They might not have accumulated any money - so what. Their family will look after them in their old age. What would they spend it on anyway? I think we have complicated our lives with false ideals. Keep things simple and be happy.
Love. yes, I do love AA very much even though sometimes I could strangle him. It is not a passionate love - we both work hard and at the end of the day we are knackered and just want to go to sleep. I find it hard to relax and if I am worried about something at work etc. I can't just switch off. AA keeps his worries to himself - he doesn't tell me when he's stressed. He's not a 'talk about your feelings' sort of person. I suppose it is a 'being together' that we are both comfortable with and are used to. We're happy. I trust him.
I am really enjoying being in touch with you and the others. We still have that 'childish' sense of humour and I have a giggle everyday at the comments. I look forward to seeing you all and I bet there's not many old school friends that keep in touch like us. When I moved away from Farnham to Wales all the friends I had here were AA's friends apart from friends at work. So it is great to have some of my own :)
I suppose what AA and I have is a normal relationship for a couple who have been married for 20 years on April 6th.
Bliss to DA: Wow and amazing - "normal"?
DA please explain this concept of normal that I have absolutely no idea about. My relationships seem to be more unusual rather than abnormal - and by that I mean friendships - it's one of the things I like about them very often is their individual quirkiness. And the truth is I like things out of the ordinary - but that brings with it it's own issues perhaps. Want to know more about normal please????DA to Bliss: .
That's the 'thing' Bliss. There is no normal for 'everyone' just normal for you and your partner. If you are happy and comfortable in your relationship then it's not abnormal is it? Perfection is what we look for and it's something that just isn't there.
Bliss to DA: Mmmm yes I agree that perfection doesn't exist. Or rather that it exists but is elusive until death perhaps??? There are always things that can be improved upon. But without that making what is a disaster or even an I also think that it is something to be worked towards - probably never achieved but that means as we go along as individuals we can take inventory of ourselves - making adjustments when disappointed with self or if they way we impact on others has a negative affect that we also don't like. Sometimes I affect people but actually I am OK with how I am. At other times I do not like how I have behaved or an attitude I have adopted.
I think this can apply similarly within a relationship. There are two individuals and the third part of the relationship is the "us" part. And stopping to observe together how things are for each other and what might need some investment of time or thought etc is surely healthy to keep moving towards the best. Perhaps I am just weird? Some people say that it should just be easy - and I agree. I think wanting to observe and adjust and negotiate etc with the right person can just be easy. To me this is all intimacy - closeness and then the intimacy can move into all areas of the relationship - physical, emotional, and even spiritual (not in the religion sense of spiritual)
I have spent a lot of my life being dissatisfied with my lot and always looking for the next experience or wanting more or different. And I am much more level these days. It takes effort though and sometimes I get stuck in perfectionism. I need people around me to challenge that and ground me - which I know is a difficult task for the very strongest of them!!! I am not under any disillusion that I am an easy person some of the time.
Mmm just spouting some thoughts.
And how wonderful that you and AA have been married for 20 years this year. That is something to be very proud of - shows that you two do work at this thing called togetherness in all its unique shapes and forms.
Do you think you two have similar values and principles? Are there things that you have vehemently disagreed on but been able to agree to disagree?
I hope you continue to be comfortable with this conversation. I find it very interesting getting your very grounded perspective on things. I am not so centred I realise. - I imagine everyone who knows me would sigh with exasperation at that comment tee hee. Mind you most people I know are also off the wall at times - who isn't?
DA to Bliss:
If you can look back on something and not want to have changed anything about it, then I suppose it must have been 'perfect'. I don't think it's possible to have or want something and say it's perfect - things change and it might not be perfect tomorrow.
AA and me have not had to sit down and negotiate - I suppose we have never felt like we needed to. I don't like arguing, but that doesn't mean I'll back down. I stand up for my rights and sometimes you have to agree to disagree in a relationship. AA likes arguing, but over the years has come to know that doesn't work with me. I think about things a lot before I act on them. I am a firm believer that you should never go to bed on an argument/disagreement - you never know if those last words of anger before bed will be the last words you ever exchange.
If you are satisfied with who you are then you will be satisfied in a relationship. You have to learn to accept yourself - doesn't matter what went on in the past. You have grown and learnt lessons from it. Time to move on and be happy with you.
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Really interesting sharing of ideas and attitudes .....
Will ponder more on what I have gleaned through sharing with a friend. It's so interesting hearing from others with different experiences. I have been looking to change for some years now but realised that I didn't know what to change to and or how to change. Thank goodness for the fellowship - how that has initiated change and the opportunity to learn from so many other people - taking from different sources what looks to be what I would like. Always room for growth and ultimately to be more at ease with myself and therefore grow into this world as it is.
Working towards acceptance ......
Bliss
X
Tilda Swanson
Nick Knight
